Damage Immunity Fix Coming Sort of Soon..

All that is new.
Fan
Posts: 686

Re: Damage Immunity Fix Coming Sort of Soon..

Post#11 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:04 am

kc2345 wrote:I think enemies with abnormally high immunity are fine as long as this is reflected in their CR and hence XP/GP/item rewards.

Currently we have the sword orcs in Thultanthar being much more resistant to damage and harder to kill than the monk orcs, yet offering similar XP. This is partially due to the CR formula not factoring in damage immunity.

I've suggested in discord that the HP component of CR be modified to include immunity once the plugin goes live, where an immunity-modified HP takes the place of the mob's true HP in the CR calculation.

Basically
ModifiedHP = f(Immunity, TrueHP), where modified HP rises with both TrueHP and Immunity

Something along the lines of ModifiedHP = TrueHP × 100/(X - AverageImmunity), where X is >=100.

X is (100 + the average immunity threshold where ModifiedHP and TrueHP are equal)

X = 100 for example would double the HP component of CR on a mob with 50% average immunity.


Assuming if we want to keep the average CR almost same as before, the formula you suggested would cause those popular farming/grinding place to reward less EXP.

I like such changes, but it is challenging to convince other players.

kc2345
Posts: 856

Re: Damage Immunity Fix Coming Sort of Soon..

Post#12 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:07 am

Whether the new formula reduces farm XP or not completely depends on the value of X.

If we set X = 100 for example, ALL enemies with non-zero total immunity will get an increase in CR value, and those with a zero total get no change.

This change then becomes inflationary, with all enemies having equal or higher CR. Grinding spot enemies with their lower immunity will either remain as they are, or inflate in CR at a lower rate than harder zones. This is fair imo.

It only becomes deflationary for high values of X - e.g. 120 or so.

My personal preference is for X to be somewhere between 100 and 105. This would avoid lowering the XP of farm favorites, but increase the XP proportionally for harder mobs.

The current status quo, where immunity does not affect CR in any way, has contributed significantly our current situation - where high EX + low base CR enemies offer better rewards and are also much easier to kill than low EX + high base CR enemies - who tend to have much higher baseline damage immunity. This runs completely counter to the whole point of a "fair" dynamic CR calculation.

Garasou
Posts: 57

Re: Damage Immunity Fix Coming Sort of Soon..

Post#13 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:34 am

bsb5652 wrote:The catalog shows the actual in game calculated immunity values regardless of the source. The synthetic is taken into account as well.


Then either the catalog or the netherese guardians creatures are rather bugged. In the catalogue they show as having no immunities but have 2 items with several 100% imunnites that should be affected by this change (divine, negative)

Edit: In fact I don't think any synthetic immunity granted by item is reflected in the immunities panel in the catalog. Another example Red Order Breeder has a robe that grants Physical Damage 75% Immunity and Fire 100% Synthetic Damage Immunity. The physical immunity is listed as as 75% slashing immunity in the immunity panel and fire one isn't listed at all.

bsb5652
Site Admin
Posts: 3230
Contact:

Re: Damage Immunity Fix Coming Sort of Soon..

Post#14 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:35 am

kc2345 wrote:I think enemies with abnormally high immunity are fine as long as this is reflected in their CR and hence XP/GP/item rewards.


I agree, and they will. We just want the immunity to come from the core game item property and not something we did that worked around the previous overflow vulnerability issue. This way the catalog and toolset will properly display values when we are working on them.
Brian Bloom

Realms of Trinity Executive Producer & Game Creator
http://www.realmsoftrinity.com

Brumm
Posts: 2505

Re: Damage Immunity Fix Coming Sort of Soon..

Post#15 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:03 am

Hello everbody,

Brian and I discussed the further plan for the immunity plugin integration and wanted to give you guys some further information about the plugin and about what we are planning to do:

What does does the damage immunity fix plugin do?
The plugin fixes a lot of bugs in the vanilla damage calculations on the engine level and also provides some performance improvements. The probably most noticeable change from a players point of view is that immunity will work reliably regardless of the damage source unless it is explicitly scripted otherwise (like it is for Frost Mages for example). The plugin also fixes a lot of bugs in the calculation of critical hits. So unlike now all damage types that are supposed to crit will crit. Another bugfix worth mentioning is a fix for touch attacks. These are currently subject to arrow deflection which can make using RTAs - especially for warlocks - frustrating sometimes. This won't be the case anymore so you won't see those annoying "**" in the logs anymore.

What kind of changes will be rolled out with the plugin?
- As a compensation for damage immunity being reliable we are going to reduce the immunity on monsters. This change is already mostly done. We lowered divine and physical damage immunity in particular to make sure non-magic users have reliable sources of damage.

- We'll cap the damage immunity for PCs at 75%. The reason is that many mobs deal mostly elemental damage that currently ignores immuntiy entirely. Making the player immunity reliable would render all these monsters completely useless because nearly every PC on the server has 100% elemental damage immunity. So you won't get 100% damage immunity anymore but in trade for that you can trust the immunity that is shown on your character screen.

- Another thing we'll roll out with the plugin is changing the damage type of STR bonus damage to be physical. Formerly it was magical damage because scripted physical damage was not taken into account for critical hits due to an engine bug. The plugin fixes that so there is no need for using magical damage anymore.

What kind of changes can be expected after the roll-out?
- Immunity on NPCs will make a much bigger difference than it currently does. To reflect that in the rewards we'll take immunity into account within the calculation of challenge ratings.

- Based on the feedback of players we'll further adjust the immunity on NPCs. So if you run into a monster that is obviously too hard to deal with due to insane immunity values, please let us know. We'll address that then as soon as we can.

- We'll probably introduce new item properties that allow you to increase the immunity cap. Items with these properties will be very rare though.

- If we see a drop in PC damage we'll reduce the Hitpoints of monsters accordingly. Caster damage - which should be mostly unaffected by the plugin - would be adjusted by the same amount then to not largen the gap between magic users and others.

Greetings
Brumm

bsb5652
Site Admin
Posts: 3230
Contact:

Re: Damage Immunity Fix Coming Sort of Soon..

Post#16 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:01 pm

Synthetic immunity clean up finalization will roll out next reboot. That will get those mobs that have immunity, but don't show it in the catalog.
Brian Bloom

Realms of Trinity Executive Producer & Game Creator
http://www.realmsoftrinity.com

kc2345
Posts: 856

Re: Damage Immunity Fix Coming Sort of Soon..

Post#17 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:46 pm

Sounds good so far!

One additional thing I've noted is that the creature items "Forgrimmithal's Hide" and "Consort's Hide" have both:

Immunity: Damage Type : Physical Damage 30% Immunity Bonus, and
Immunity: Damage Type : Slashing 30% Immunity Bonus

These stack to result in a mob with 60% slashing immunity.

Affected mobs:
Forgrimmithal himself, Forgrimmithal's Consorts and for some inexplicable reason, the CR 27 Luskan Gladiators.

Is this intentional?

bsb5652
Site Admin
Posts: 3230
Contact:

Re: Damage Immunity Fix Coming Sort of Soon..

Post#18 » Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:23 pm

Yes. We aren't slashing everything, just most.

Beta server is up with the 75% cap and Naam's plugin fixes enabled.
Brian Bloom

Realms of Trinity Executive Producer & Game Creator
http://www.realmsoftrinity.com

Return to “News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron