Rogue/Rogue Set Re-balanced

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fox
Posts: 262

Rogue/Rogue Set Re-balanced

Post#1 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:44 am

Rank 1
*** Set Bonus Applied (1 Item) ***
* Regeneration equal to you true Strength or Dexterity mod (higher one counts). The Regeneration is tripled if you have at least 21 level of the Rogue Type Classes
* Haste
Rank 2
*** Set Bonus Applied (2 Items) ***
* Regeneration equal to you true Strength or Dexterity mod (higher one counts). The Regeneration is tripled if you have at least 21 level of the Rogue Type Classes
* Haste
* AC 8 (Deflection, Armor)
* Positive Damage Bonus (The bonus scales with your Rogue level. It is 2d4 (LVL 8), 2d6 (LVL12), 2d8 (LVL 16), 2d10 (LVL 20), 2d12 (LVL 24)
Rank 3
*** Set Bonus Applied (3 Items) ***
* Regeneration equal to you true Strength or Dexterity mod (higher one counts). The Regeneration is tripled if you have at least 21 level of the Rogue Type Classes
* Haste
* AC 9 (Deflection, Armor)
* Immunity Against Mind Effects, Sneak Attacks, Negative Level
* Positive/Magic Damage Bonus (The bonus scales with your Rogue level. It is 2d4 (LVL 8), 2d6 (LVL12), 2d8 (LVL 16), 2d10 (LVL 20), 2d12 (LVL 24)
* 100 Bonus HP
* Improved Sneak attack (The bonus scales with your Rogue level. It is Improved Sneak Attack (+1d6) (LVL 8), Improved Sneak Attack (+2d6) (LVL12), Improved Sneak Attack (+3d6) (LVL 16), Improved Sneak Attack (+4d6) (LVL 20), Improved Sneak Attack (+5d6) (LVL 24) Improved Sneak Attack (+6d6) (LVL 28), Improved Sneak Attack (+7d6) (LVL 30), Improved Sneak Attack (+8d6) (LVL 32), Improved Sneak Attack (+9d6) (LVL 34), Improved Sneak Attack (+10d6) (LVL36)
* Special Ability (Set Cloak)
Rank 4
*** Set Bonus Applied (4 Items) ***
* Regeneration equal to you true Strength or Dexterity mod (higher one counts). The Regeneration is tripled if you have at least 21 level of the Rogue Type Classes
* Haste
* AC 10 (Deflection, Armor)
* Immunity Against Mind Effects, Sneak Attacks, Negative Level
* 25% Damage Immunity (Cold, Fire, Acid, Electrical)
* Positive/Magic/Cold Damage Bonus (The bonus scales with your Rogue level. It is 2d4 (LVL 8), 2d6 (LVL12), 2d8 (LVL 16), 2d10 (LVL 20), 2d12 (LVL 24)
* 100 Bonus HP
* Improved Sneak attack (The bonus scales with your Rogue level. It is Improved Sneak Attack (+1d6) (LVL 8), Improved Sneak Attack (+2d6) (LVL12), Improved Sneak Attack (+3d6) (LVL 16), Improved Sneak Attack (+4d6) (LVL 20), Improved Sneak Attack (+5d6) (LVL 24) Improved Sneak Attack (+6d6) (LVL 28), Improved Sneak Attack (+7d6) (LVL 30), Improved Sneak Attack (+8d6) (LVL 32), Improved Sneak Attack (+9d6) (LVL 34), Improved Sneak Attack (+10d6) (LVL36)
* Skill mastery: The rogue cannot roll less than 5 whenever using the Disable Device, Open Lock, or Set Trap skills, even if in combat.
* Special Ability (Set Cloak)
Rank 5
*** Set Bonus Applied (5 Items) ***
* Regeneration equal to you true Strength or Dexterity mod (higher one counts). The Regeneration is tripled if you have at least 21 level of the Rogue Type Classes
* Haste
* AC + 11 (Deflection, Armor). For every two Rogue Level above the 8th, you get another point of AC up to a maximum of +18. Strength based rogues get another bonus of +2.
* Immunity Against Mind Effects, Sneak Attacks, Negative Level, Blindness, Critical Strikes, Attack Decreases
* 25% Damage Immunity (Cold, Fire, Acid, Electrical, Sonic, Magical, Divine, Positive)
* Positive/Magic/Cold/Acid Damage Bonus (The bonus scales with your Rogue level. It is 2d4 (LVL 8), 2d6 (LVL12), 2d8 (LVL 16), 2d10 (LVL 20), 2d12 (LVL 24)
* Save Bonus: You get a bonus of +4 to your saves. For every five Rogue levels above the 8th, you get another +4 bonus up to a maximum of +16.
* 100 Bonus HP
* Improved Sneak attack (The bonus scales with your Rogue level. It is Improved Sneak Attack (+1d6) (LVL 8), Improved Sneak Attack (+2d6) (LVL12), Improved Sneak Attack (+3d6) (LVL 16), Improved Sneak Attack (+4d6) (LVL 20), Improved Sneak Attack (+5d6) (LVL 24) Improved Sneak Attack (+6d6) (LVL 28), Improved Sneak Attack (+7d6) (LVL 30), Improved Sneak Attack (+8d6) (LVL 32), Improved Sneak Attack (+9d6) (LVL 34), Improved Sneak Attack (+10d6) (LVL36)
* Rogue Attack Bonus, +1 AB at 16 Rogue levels, and +1 thereafter per Rogue level(s), capped at +15 AB.
* Slippery mind: This ability represents the rogue's ability to wriggle free from magical effects that would otherwise control or compel her. If a rogue with slippery mind is affected by an enchantment spell or effect and fails her saving throw, she automatically gets one reroll.
* Special Ability (Set Cloak)

Rogue Class Change:

- At Level 8, Sixth Sense: Type of Feat: Class
Prerequisite: Rogue level 8
"Sixth Sense" (Rogue Armor Bonus), AC + 11 (Deflection, Armor). For every two Rogue Level above the 8th, you get another point of AC up to a maximum of +18. Strength based rogues get another bonus of +2.
Use: Automatic.


- At Level 16, Stealthy Attacker: Type of Feat: Class
Prerequisite: Rogue level 16
"Stealthy Attacker" (Rogue Attack Bonus), +1 AB at 16 Rogue levels, and +1 thereafter per Rogue level(s), capped at +15 AB
Use: Automatic.
Last edited by fox on Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:31 pm, edited 4 times in total.

fox
Posts: 262

Re: Rogue/Rogue Set Re-balanced

Post#2 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:46 am

This makes non set rogues viable and adds a huge bonus or 4 to set users so no one feels burnt.
Let's talk!

Rogues have little in common with each other. While some - maybe even the majority - are stealthy thieves, many serve as scouts, spies, investigators, diplomats, and simple thugs. Rogues are versatile, adaptable, and skilled at getting what others don't want them to get. While not equal to a fighter in combat, a rogue knows how to hit where it hurts, and a sneak attack can dish out a lot of damage. Rogues also seem to have a sixth sense when it comes to avoiding danger. Experienced rogues develop nearly magical powers and skills as they master the arts of stealth, evasion, and sneak attacks. In addition, while not capable of casting spells on their own, a rogue can sometimes "fake it" well enough to cast spells from scrolls, activate wands, and use just about any other magic item.

Beside sneak attacking rogues can place powerful traps.


This last sentence is why I decided sneak and trap damage would be nice replacements for the set.

Brumm
Posts: 2454

Re: Rogue/Rogue Set Re-balanced

Post#3 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:55 am

Yep, something like that could do the trick.
I'll take a deeper look at it this weekend.

addict-ant
Posts: 733

Re: Rogue/Rogue Set Re-balanced

Post#4 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:00 pm

This idea would force current rogues not only to re-level but also to rebuild, costing them 2 extra feats on what is usually a pretty feat starved line up; in exchange for what they were getting from gear - some of whom will have donated for said gear.

Rather than nerfing the rogues in play by 2 feats, may i suggest simply adding those two set abilities to the rogue class and adding nothing to the set?

For example

Rogue set bonus AC:
Retain the 8/9/10/11 (Deflection, Armor) at ranks 2/3/4/5 on the set.

Add the following to the Rogue Class:-
Rogue bonus AC:
Level 10 - Rogues receive a bonus +1 to Deflection & Armor AC and a further +1 AC to Deflection & Armor for every 2 Rogue Type Class levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +7. Strength based rogues get another bonus of +2.

Rogue Attack Bonus:
+1 AB at 16 Rogue, and +1 thereafter per Rogue Type Class levels, capped at +15 AB.

No one loses anything, no one has to rebuild and we reduce the set power whilst transferring it to the class.
Image

fox
Posts: 262

Re: Rogue/Rogue Set Re-balanced

Post#5 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:12 pm

addict-ant wrote:This idea would force current rogues not only to re-level but also to rebuild, costing them 2 extra feats on what is usually a pretty feat starved line up; in exchange for what they were getting from gear - some of whom will have donated for said gear.

Rather than nerfing the rogues in play by 2 feats, may i suggest simply adding those two set abilities to the rogue class and adding nothing to the set?


For example

Rogue set bonus AC:
Retain the 8/9/10/11 (Deflection, Armor) at ranks 2/3/4/5 on the set.

Add the following to the Rogue Class:-
Rogue bonus AC:
Level 10 - Rogues receive a bonus +1 to Deflection & Armor AC and a further +1 AC to Deflection & Armor for every 2 Rogue Type Class levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +7. Strength based rogues get another bonus of +2.

Rogue Attack Bonus:
+1 AB at 16 Rogue, and +1 thereafter per Rogue Type Class levels, capped at +15 AB.

No one loses anything, no one has to rebuild and we reduce the set power whilst transferring it to the class.


Adding nothing to the set just will not fly, so a few things are added but other than that made your changes.

fox
Posts: 262

Re: Rogue/Rogue Set Re-balanced

Post#6 » Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:34 pm

Adjusted so the AB/AC copies to the Rogue Class from the Rogue set.

Added two Rogue Feats to the set.
Added the Epic Improved Sneak Attack line to the set (progressive)

Copy and paste changes for the Dev who tackles it.

This seems like the best balance I have hit so far.
Anyone?

bsb5652
Site Admin
Posts: 3179
Contact:

Re: Rogue/Rogue Set Re-balanced

Post#7 » Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:17 am

Any change like this will have to go through the CAB (Change Advisory Board). Even though it nets out, as ant stated, it would have negative player impacts initially that have to be taken into account. I agree we should do this or something like it, but only after a CAB vote and consensus.
Brian Bloom

Realms of Trinity Executive Producer & Game Creator
http://www.realmsoftrinity.com

Brumm
Posts: 2454

Re: Rogue/Rogue Set Re-balanced

Post#8 » Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:12 am

And we should wait until we handled the immunity plugin changes.

konst3d
Posts: 636

Re: Rogue/Rogue Set Re-balanced

Post#9 » Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:58 pm

Make this +AB to work only with weapons from rogue weapon list - dagger, kukri, shortbow, etc... ?
Well, just because greatsword wielding rogues look a bit weird...
Magic is impressive, but now Minsc leads! Swords for everyone!

fox
Posts: 262

Re: Rogue/Rogue Set Re-balanced

Post#10 » Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:10 pm

konst3d wrote:Make this +AB to work only with weapons from rogue weapon list - dagger, kukri, shortbow, etc... ?
Well, just because greatsword wielding rogues look a bit weird...


This is not new AB, it is AB transferring from set to the class. Excluding rogues from AB access because of their choice of weapon doesn't seem like a good idea to rebalance the class and set. They would then not be able to use one of the best weapon in their set , Kukri.

- Weapon Proficiencies: Rogues are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the rapier, shortbow, and short sword.

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