"True" Rogue Levels

Updates on roll-outs.
AGhost_7
Posts: 2574

"True" Rogue Levels

Post#1 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:32 am

True Rogue levels are calculated by adding your total rogue levels with half of your levels of rogue-esque classes. These "rogue-esque" classes are the following:

  • Guild thief
  • Shadowdancer
  • Assassin
  • Invisible Blade
  • Nightsong Enforcer
  • Thug
  • Skullclan Hunter
  • Dark Lantern
  • Nightsong Infiltrator
  • Avenger
  • Shadowbane Stalker
  • Scout
  • Wilderness Stalker

True rogue levels are used for calculating class emulation capabilities. In other words, it is now:

5 Levels of the class - [UMD / 10 + True Bard Levels / 5 + True Rogue Levels / 5]

With at least one level in one of the restricted classes on the item or 17 True Bard levels or 15 True Rogue levels.

Jeremias
Posts: 24

Re: "True" Rogue Levels

Post#2 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:11 am

Let me try a example:

30 levels of Scout with 16 ranks in UMD and Charisma 18.

True Rogue Levels = Half of Scout levels = 30 / 2 = 15
UMD = UMD ranks + Charisma mod = 16 + 4 = 20

Class emulation = UMD / 10 + True Rogue levels / 5 = 20 /10 + 15 /5 = 2 + 3 = 5

At least 1 level in one of the restricted classes on the item or 15 True Rogue level = Achieved

So the example can use any class item.
He still need more UMD level to use high level Scrolls.

Am i right?

eidolon
Posts: 207

Re: "True" Rogue Levels

Post#3 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:36 am

Why not just use Sneak Attack dice (or equivalents like Death Attack or Bleeding Wound)?

Phluffhead
Posts: 24

Re: "True" Rogue Levels

Post#4 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:41 am

No Swashbuckler?

AGhost_7
Posts: 2574

Re: "True" Rogue Levels

Post#5 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:02 pm

Jeremias wrote:So the example can use any class item.
He still need more UMD level to use high level Scrolls.

Am i right?

No, I only added more classes that count for gear restrictions. No changes to the current mechanics where done other than that, so you can use scrolls the same as you always have.
eidolon wrote:Why not just use Sneak Attack dice (or equivalents like Death Attack or Bleeding Wound)?

Cheeze.

Phluffhead wrote:No Swashbuckler?

I'll get to that class eventually. Just didn't make sense to add it in this case from a lore perspective. You'll most likely see some conversation boosts for swashies (with some flavor added, hopefully).

eidolon
Posts: 207

Re: "True" Rogue Levels

Post#6 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:01 pm

AGhost_7 wrote:Cheeze.


I may be wrong, but I posit that 15d6 SA is a) not that easy to achieve, and b) not that useful on RoT in and of itself. All classes which progress sneak dice do so at 1d6 per 2 levels or worse (though you can squeeze in an extra 1d6 here and there with good splits, you often pay a BAB penalty for doing so). Rogues are dearly in need of Epic feats (Epic Precision, Epic Prowess, Expose Weakness, PTWF, and either Epic Dodge or worse, Self-Conceal, or yet worse: both). So Improved Sneak Attack has a steep cost (and requires 8d6 to qualify, anyway, which is non-trivial). The Kaedrin feats help Scout and Swashbuckler, not exactly super-popular classes, but not Ranger (1d6 per 4 levels is too slow to get to 15d6 by level 30, and they qualify for Epic Craftsman already anyway). Neither my Scout/Ranger build nor my Swashbuckler build would qualify to wear arbitrary class-restricted gear under this scheme (nor under your scheme), and would have to give up a lot to do so. The Swashbuckler comes close at 12d6, but she is really feat-starved.

So where's the cheese?

AGhost_7
Posts: 2574

Re: "True" Rogue Levels

Post#7 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:26 pm

I'm done boosting rangers for now. Doesn't make sense from a lore perspective to give them such an ability either.

Molag__Bal
Posts: 272

Re: "True" Rogue Levels

Post#8 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:37 pm

AGhost_7 wrote:True Rogue levels are calculated by adding your total rogue levels with half of your levels of rogue-esque classes.

Does the formula round up or down? For example, if you have a Rogue 10 | Assassin 1 | Thug 3, what are the true rogue levels?

Is it 10 + 0 + 1 = 11

Or is it 10 + 1 + 2 = 13

Or does it combine the assassin and thug levels first, so it's 10 + 2 = 12?

AGhost_7
Posts: 2574

Re: "True" Rogue Levels

Post#9 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:52 pm

Computers don't round up numbers (they just discard the information), so I left it at that (e.g., an integer of 3 divided by 2 would be 1). Based on your example, it would be 11 True Rogue Levels.

eidolon
Posts: 207

Re: "True" Rogue Levels

Post#10 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:40 am

AGhost_7 wrote:
eidolon wrote:...but not Ranger...

I'm done boosting rangers for now. Doesn't make sense from a lore perspective to give them such an ability either.


I don't think you read what I wrote, but I don't actually care enough to argue. I just thought it would be more consistent with existing game mechanics.

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